Motor dies, runs, dies, runs, dies, runs, etc

[OldEz]

I think... at least I hope, you meant well. I'm going to take it that you mean I fall into the "realistic enthusiast" category since I'm sucking it up and trying to work out the problems even though I'm getting very little support.


But in case some people are trying to find a way to call me petty, I would like to say that I've been much more patience than I feel I get credit for.

Right now I have fixed multiple problems on my Beta and you can search the internet all you want and you won't find me complaining about Beta anywhere except this thread.


BUT I could have.

1) When I got the bike from the dealer, it only had half coolant in it. Factory or dealer, whoever filled it didn't open the bleeder screw apparently. It could have been a real major disaster, but luckily i caught it.

2) I decided to change the original plastic as soon as I got the bike and keep it all to put back on the bike if I ever decided to sell it. Two screws were stripped from the factory, both on the rear fender so I had to fix those first thing. On a brand new bike. I won't get into how many bolts and nuts were either very loose or at the edge of stripping tight.

3) The speedo didn't work when I got the bike home. Unplugged and re-plugged to get it working. That happens once per month regularly. Last time that didn't work, but after 2 weeks it started working on its own and has been intermittent ever since. it works. It doesn't work. The speed suddenly jumps up. The speed suddenly drops down. Pretty close to useless.

4) The radiator fan had a wobble from the factory, so bad you wondered why it didn't fall off. Well one day it did. I pulled it off and it had no nut, clip, or even a place for either. Apparently it was a press on fit! I pressed it back on and added a touch of glue to help hold it.I have no faith it will hold. Its cheap and flimsy.

5) The worst one; the shock is permanently messed up from the factory and it appears the machining is off on the linkage pull rod and whoever put the bike together KNEW it and used the part any way. At about 2 1/2 months in, I found a bad top shock bearing and decided to replace it MYSELF, WITHOUT PUTTING IT ON A BOARD OR CALLING THE DEALERSHIP. Turns out the factory had pressed it either from the wrong side or pushed it too far through. It was up on the groove it is supposed to stop at and now that machined groove is boogered over into the seat area. There is no way to fix it now without maybe machining a solution or buying a new shock/shock body. I worked out some of the boogering and got the new bearing to sorta fit somewhere close to right but it won't last long and it won't work except for maybe 1 to 3 times before it will wear out the messed up machining. Then i, not the factory, will be forced to figure out a machining solution or buy a new shock.

6) While doing that I had noticed a bit of play in the pull rods linkage and decided to grease all the linkage and check those bearings to see if I could ride the bike while I ordered new bushings and bearings or if they were so shot I would have to leave off the bike until the parts came in. ALL the linkage bearings were bone dry. The pull rod bearings were so tight on one side I could barely get put the bushing. The other side was a bit loose. The loose side had 2 rod bearings MISSING from the bearing cage. I work on lots of bikes so I hunted around and found 2 the same size, greased it all and went to reinstall. The bushing WOULD NOT now go through with a full set of bearings. I tried and tried. Would not fit. (Later I tried the new bushing and it would not fit either) So I pulled out the 2 added rod bearings and decided to reinstall. Now I couldn't get the other side, that i almost couldn't get apart, back together! I had to do like someone at the factory did for the first side, i had to remove 2 rod bearings from the cage to get the bushing to fit through.

The only explanation I have is that the press fit for the bearings was machined too close/narrow and whoever installed the bearings at the factory went ahead and pressed them in anyways. That made them deflect/bend just a touch and now the bushing can't fit with all the bearings in place.

NOW FOR THE CURRENT ISSUE

I haven't modified anything electrical. I haven't modified anything in the motor or carb. At about 4 months and about 50-55 hours of run time (as I remember) I have a useless pile of plastic and metal that i paid over $10,000 for (counting all taxes and dealer charges). That's only 3 or 4 hours of riding a week for those math doers out there. For $10,000, I expect more riding time than that.

For people doing math, that's about $2500 a month unless I get it fixed.

I expect more support for $10,000 from the company network than telling me how to spend days working on it myself and telling me that I might void the warranty if I'm not extra careful but still never committing to taking the bike into their shop and letting Beta pay them to fix it or telling me that they will fix it but it'll take time and i might would be better off taking it to another dealer. (the last one was probably being honest)

As for myself and the bike, my likely response is that I will suck it up and keep it no matter what I think of the company because this one bike out of their lineup is so unique. The only bike out there that might compare is one of the new/old Gas Gas Rangers. If I see that they do actually compare, I'll get away from this dealer network ASAP and buy one. But until then, I'll stick with the XTrainer because I'm not gonna bite off my nose to spite my face.

But I can't find any honest reason to recommend them to people any more and I would feel guilty if I didn't warn people what they could be getting into if they buy a Beta.

And no, I still haven't worked all the bugs out of the suspension that is often said to be one of the worst in 20 years. But I have gotten it usable, not good, but usable.

[Silverfox]

Check the connection on the fuel pump in the tank. Mine came loose on my 21 350

[OldEz]

I REALLY appreciate you trying to help, but mine is carbureted . I don't have a fuel pump.

It's a 2022 XTrainer 300 2 Stroke. I really should have put that in the post header. Sorry.



SOME CLARIFICATION

After sleeping on it, I should probably clarify that both dealers should and are getting the benefit of the doubt, even though that is still leaving me frustrated.

The one dealer's mechanic really is not up to par with the second dealer's mechanic and the second dealer is a closer drive for me. He probably thinks I really would be better off with the second dealership doing the work.

But for some reason the second dealer seems to think I'm out of warranty and it's still a long drive to the second dealer who is the lone mechanic at a much busier dealership and turnover is probably slower for any one machine. And he's trying to keep down costs for me, get parts covered by warranty (he doesn't realize they would/should be already), and save me a long drive and wait.

If I didn't believe those things were likely true,I would have been on the phone with Beta America by now.

Likely true or not, it's still leaving me without a running bike that SHOULD be covered by warranty, that I SHOULDN'T' be having to try to fix at home, and SHOULDN'T have to be taking any chance at all on voiding my warranty.

I have a large hole in my arm that drained a few shot glasses of blood filled fluid last night that is very sore, 3 cracked ribs, and a very sore and tender femur, all from the wreck I had on the way out after the bike tore up. It was at a place where I would have carried the front wheel if the bike had been running and then I normally wouldn't have crashed. Still, it was my fault and I should have been more careful. But you can see how that makes this more frustrating.

And it makes it painful to try to work on the bike.

And as I said before, when it rains, it pours. Several times since this all began other problems have required may attention for whole days and yesterday I had some virus that required i stay near the Throne Room. The cramps are not very nice... I'm still feeling like an old dog.. rough, rough. I might not work on the bike yet again today.

So I'm very frustrated and I'm be-witching and crying much more than I normally would.

I don't feel YET, at this point, the dealers are doing me wrong purposefully, but the result, regardless of intentions, is that I'm not getting warranty work performed that I paid for. Warranty DID factor into my decision to buy a new Beta and no one should kid themselves; you the consumer PAY for the warranty of any covered vehicle you buy. Warranties are NOT FREE, nor done out of the companies good heart. You pay for a warranty.

I came VERY close to going to the KTM dealer instead. He is close and VERY good, so the Beta warranty WAS a deciding factor. If I leave Beta, I will go for either a similar specialty bike in the Rieju Ranger or for a KTM 300 where I know I have a reasonably close dealer who WILL take care of me.

So though at this point I don't believe the dealers or Beta are out to do me wrong with bad intent, I'm just not getting what I paid for. And with me feeling so beat up, now is when I needed the company to step up and do their job.


APOLOGIES

I apologize for all the public be-witching and whining. I didn't start this thread for that. I honestly started this thread because I thought with a larger pool to draw from, I would get some good knowledgeable help with my problem. I would like to again thank you guys who tried to help. It is appreciated!

[pscook]

My apologies for any confusion. I was trying to set up a little context, and let you know that the "haters" are usually the itinerant owners, or the ones that just have to hate on something (anything and everything, really), whereas most of the folks on this forum are enthusiasts.

I bought my bike out of warranty, so I can empathize with your situation without having the direct experience. However, it does sound like quite a fair bit of challenges, and I do hope that you get it worked out. Yes, I agree that for the money you should have a better product; I'm not an apologist for the brand. Resolution of these types of issues are personal and complicated, and I can see why you have the frustrations that you have. I don't wish that on anyone.

I don't know if this has been suggested, but you might be better served calling Beta USA directly, I understand that the main contact is a reasonable fellow. This way you can bypass the questions of warranty expiration and cut right to the bone with the top cheese. I can't see any drawback to having a conversation with the Beta corporate folks because you deserve to be heard, as you have some well documented issues and concerns.

[OldEz]

Still need to take it for a test ride but I couldn't get it to die around the shop. I think it is fixed. but...

Let me beg off saying more than that for now. It's 1:00AM here and I MUST get some sleep. If it's fixed, it's an interesting story and may help quite a few people out. But for now I can barely hold my eyes open.

I will try to write it up in the morning!

[OldEz]

Been feeling terrible. I think all this yellow stuff and blood draining out of this deep hole in my arm ,might have been making me a bit sick. i think I mentioned how bad the cut was on the arm that I got while riding the broken down XT outta the woods. It was about 2' x 2 1/1'and all the way through the muscle, down to the bone just above the elbow. It will take some time to heal all the way.

So I felt sick all weekend and didn't touch the bike. However I finally googled variations of "Beta 300 electrical problems" and found they are much more common than we know. I have the impression that they are much more common than the bad crank bearing issue ever was. Actually it seems that at least in America, wiring shorts are very common. It looks to be a combination of a little cost cutting on the wire quality and poor routing. I don't believe the routing would have been nearly as big of an issue if the wire had been one gauge thicker and a couple of grades higher quality.

The other thing to keep in mind is how true dirt bikes are wired differently than cars. When we think of a bike with a battery, we automatically think that every system is isolated and independent like cars and street bikes. Keep in mid that cars and street bikes won't run without a near fully charged battery. Your Beta will. You need to be able to get out of the woods if you have a battery problem. Your Beta is not wired as a street bike. Everything is much more minimalistic and interconnected.

Case in point; 4 years ago was riding mt CRF450X outta the woods when it got dark on me. I had installed a headlight switch and reached up and flipped it on. 10-15 seconds later my bike died and never struck another lick. Took 2 friends and 4 hours to get it out of where I was.

Later at home, no spark to the plug. Checked everything and every wire one by one, TWICE. Nothing wrong. Finally, I said well just to be through, I'll check the headlight. Pulled the bulb. You could see it was shot. While it was out, checked the spark. BOOM !!! I had fire to the plug !!!

I didn't bother to figure out what went wrong. When I decided I needed my headlight fixed, I just installed all new wiring off the battery..

Reading up, it appears that most people have problems with wiring shorts in the head stock area so I removed the headlight 1st. The wires from the killswitch were super tight, stretched over the signal light mount. Thinking that could have a connector pulled partly out, I rerouted those wires and figured most likely I had found my problem.

Didn't want to do this repeatedly though so I kept checking. The ground to the ignition coil came bent at a hard angle from the factory so I re-bent that. I started to remove the gas tank, but thought I would test ride first so I had an idea how through I needed to be. If I had no yet solved the problem, I figured it was under the tank and then I needed to be super through.

Test ride was great. Problem seemed solved

While I had the tank most of the way off, I decided to install the fan switch I had already bought to be able to manually turn on the fan when I was heading into a tight section.Pulled the tank, pulled the fan and heat sensor wires. There was an extra tight pinch point for the fan motor wires at the radiator. Of course I did an inspection.

BOOM !!!

The plastic cover was worn through at one place and cut through at another. The place that was worn through showed signs of heavy arching. The copper was blackened, the insulation was blacked. Believe it or not, it still didn't dawn on me. I was stuck thinking in car mode, individual circuits for each component.

Trying to decide exactly how I wanted to wire in the switch, i completed the connection for the sensor and ran a power wire for the fan hot side. The fan took off like a turbo, seemed to be about 4 X speed and then... then the lights came on, literally. The map switch light lit up and the speedometer lit up and started doing its engine checks... hmmmm....

With a hint from a friend about that same time over text to be careful, the fan may be AC, it finally dawned on me.

The fan WAS AC. The entire system was interconnected. A short in any one part of the system affected the whole circuit. Any short anywhere in any of the circuit shorted out the whole system. I had only "fixed" my problem during the test ride because I had loosened the fuel tank taking pressure of the short in the fan motor wires.

So... I fixed the wires to the fan motor, re-routed them, wired in my fan switch, and put it all back together. And so far, the problem seems cured by test riding. I'll take it on a longer ride tomorrow but I think that did it.

What did I learn from all this?

Beta dealers are not super human after all. They won't jump through hoops of fire that other dealers won't. They're normal. That takes a lot of the shine off Beta for me. I won't be a brand fan boy from now on. Nothing special to see here.

Beta is not the super brand. They make design flaws just like the other brands and I already knew about problems in factory quality control. This may have been both. Beta is using cheap thin wire and any routing that is not perfect from the factory is gonna cause problems.

And lastly, when my warranty is out of date, I'm stripping the bike down and redoing the entire wiring harness so that I can fell comfortable no matter how far back I want to take the bike. I would encourage all Beta owners of the last 2 to 4 years to check and reroute your wiring if you are still under warranty and to strip your bike down and go over the wiring with a fine tooth comb after your warranty is over.

[F5 Dave]

My 21s warranty is 6 weeks out from end so, along with rechecking the flywheel gears I will do that as well. Thanks for update, good on you for persevering. Italians and electrics. It's not a new combination of decidedly average. My father used to like Alfas, but that's another story.

There's quite a bit of official stuff pistons etc for changing suspension. My tuner plowed his own trench and improvement is substantial.

[Darkside]

another common failing in the wiring is the ground cluster. multiple ground wires are crimped together just before the steering head. when the harness is pulled tight the crimp fails. although beta has increased it's visibility and sales. it is still what I consider a boutique brand. it is not bulletproof like a japanese brand. If fact I consider it just the opposite. I have a lot of experience with italian mfg. Aprilia, multiple italian husky's, and 2 betas. one thing I've noticed is that they have a flair and beauty about them, but they all have niggling little problems that need to be sorted out. if you're not the sort of person that can accept working on and tuning a bike, you're prob better off with a ktm. I consider ktm build quality a better. there are lots of identified small, insignificant parts that when they fail, common consensus is to replace that part with a ktm replacement

[pscook]

I was glad to read that you solved the issue, and I concur on the wiring. It's not the space shuttle, so spend a little extra up front to save some on the back.

It can be frustrating (as I noted above), and I hope that you have many years of pleasant ownership ahead of you. My 2016 430 is the best dirt bike I have ever owned. I'm sure that if I come into some folding money that I'll be getting a 350 (or maybe *gasp* a 250 2t) for trail work, but for now the 430 is all that I want. It's the four stroke that I wish GasGas had made (or at least offered for sale).

[OldEz]

As much as I hate to say it, I was premature.

That DID NOT fix the bike.

It fixed it for maybe 2 (non-consecutive) hours of gentile riding around the shop (is all I have there) yesterday.

Today it was good for the first hour test riding at Brown Mountain ORV. Then it was the same problem for an hour and a 1/2 or so. Then it cleared up for about 2 hours, no dying. I decided it was fixed again and was getting ready to load up when I heard a boy had got lost from his dad so I went back out (I actually found the boy and brought him back in and another person who had gotten lost trying to search for the boy) and then it started dying randomly again.

I'm too disappointed to get into it any deeper tonight. At this point I'm not sure what I'm gonna do next. Probably ONE MORE day of checking it out on my own and then turning the problem completely over to Beta...

On one last side note, that one dealer WAS being better to me than I gave him credit. I realized today he was trying to tell me to do all the things that would NOT be covered under warranty before I bring it in. Stuff like dirt or water in the carb would NOT be covered by warranty and he wanted me to be sure I checked all that stuff off the list so I wouldn't be outta pocket a lot of money that I wasn't expecting to pay, so I guess i might have been a little quick to be not satisfied. I'm thinking now he probably WAS looking out for my best interest as best he knew how.

But it is still very frustrating for me.