Motor dies, runs, dies, runs, dies, runs, etc

[pscook]

I got nothing else to say except that I'm pulling for you. It will be nice if the dealer turns out to be as helpful as you want him to be. Might be worth it to contact Beta USA just in case.

[F5 Dave]

I did look at my 2021, it's on bench doing spring change so cant turn bars as tied for extra security.

But just for reference, the loom is ahead of steering head enough you can comfortably get a finger between there to touch both at the same time.

[OldEz]

First, let me say that i have an Aprillia too and it's a constant source of pleasure and pain. I work on it more than I ride it and it sits much more than that but I doubt I'll every sell it. I actually do understand boutique bikes. A large part of the bikes I've owned were "hot rods" needed my constant attention. If you buy an XTrainer and ride mostly with an A class crowd, buying an XTrainer with all it's suspension problems is a sure sign that you don't mind tackling tough problems and don't mind owning a "touchy" bike. But I consider this a different animal so far. I do expect that I paid extra for a warranty and Beta should have charged me less if they weren't intending on honoring that warranty. Maybe you missed reading all the problems that I have already worked out in the first 4 months with my Beta so far and haven't even told people about much less bothered Beta or this board. Buying a new shock because the factory messed yours up is sucking it up pretty good I think. But when the bike won't run, I can't find the problem, and it appears the dealers aren't honoring their warranty that's a different animal.

If you see it differently, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I know I probably didn't need to respond to that and may sound petty by saying I'm not being petty, but I'm not trying to be ugly and I REALLY feel I'm actually being very patient with Beta/the dealerships over this whole affair.

Answered/explained and is water under the bridge! I appreciate your input.

AND I do appreciate your advice to check the grounding clusters. I'll do that today to the best of my abilities. The one dealer told me not to split the harness cover to check underneath because that could void my warranty. So my ability to check that is kinda hampered. I do agree with you there is a good possibility my problem lies there.

Which brings me to I finally found a dealer who agrees with me. I didn't tell him anything except the basic problem and asked him if I split the wiring harness cover to check for shorts underneath, would it void my warranty. To which he responded something like;

" You bought a brand new bike from Beta with a warranty that you paid for and Beta promised to honor. You don't NEED to know how to fix a major problem without voiding the warranty. The bike is only 4 months old. I don't know why any other dealer hasn't taken this in ASAP and fixed it ASAP, but if you bring it to us, you have my word that we will fix it no matter what it takes and when you get it back, it will be right. I don't want to tell you how to avoid voiding warranty because I don't you to have to be doing MY job. Fixing your major problem or even minor problem is MY job, not yours. You already paid Beta and therefore me by buying our bike with a warranty. I promise you I will stand by that warranty and get you happy with your motorcycle again if you will just bring it to me and let ME do MY job that YOU already paid me to do!"

So, he is like the 6th closest dealer to me, which means a round trip of about 8 hours to drop off and 8 more to pick up and maybe $200 gas money at today's prices but that's where the bike is going. That's who is getting all my future Beta business and recommendations.

I plan to work on the bike ONE LAST time today and take the bike to him Tuesday (when he re-opens) if I still don't find the problem.

I did call the other dealer back who I WAS giving the benefit of the doubt to ask him again about voiding the warranty (he is the one who told me that would probably void my warranty). I got no answer the first call and the second call I was put over to voice mail asking for my name and number and promising a call back.

He had 2 days to call me back and didn't. I'm done with him.

I'll update again when I have more time and have checked out the bike again.

Thanks for the support guys !!!

[F5 Dave]

Good luck dude. Sounds like it's been frustrating as all heck.

[OldEz]

I made a mistake and answered the phone call from the dealer who ended up taking 3 days to call me back. He was the closest of the dealers that I had been talking to and the one I had friends in common with. He didn't seem to want to take it in but told me everything he could think of to test, (most of which I had already checked and more) right down to splitting the wire protective sheathing and checking almost every inch, all the way around, of every wire that could possibly be at a pinch point and re-taping the wires when done. I checked everything electronic that Beta had numbers out for (on my own). The stator came up bad and that's all I could find.For reasons to long for this short post, I believe the computer is making errors, whether that's because the stator is not supplying correct voltage or the computer is bad, I don't know.

He said he would send me a stator but if that didn't fix it, I would have to pay for it. I said but what if my theory is right that it needs a stator AND a computer? He said that I would still have to pay for the stator and then he would send me a computer under the same conditions. I said so if I'm right and it needs both, I'm out the price of one of them but if you do the work at your place you'll cover both? And he said yeah that's effectively how it works out but I'm so backed up that it will take me up to 2 months to get your bike done.

I said I've been down 4 weeks already of my 6 month warranty, that means that half of my warranty time will be spent without a running bike, 3 months without a running bike. He said yeah I'm sure it's frustrating for you.


Let that sink in and tell me again how all Beta dealers all go above and beyond...


So I took it back to the dealer I bought it from. Drove 160 miles, one way. Was there a total of 14 minutes before the dealer had walked me to my truck, unloaded my bike and left me standing there. He spent most of that time trying to tell me I was probably blowing the problem out of proportion and all the ways that it quite possibly could NOT be covered by warranty.

At first I was told 2 to 3 weeks before the mechanic could even look at it, but as I left, was told that the mechanic would call me at the first of next week.


So... who knows?


I haven't been volunteering telling anyone except this forum about what is going on and I still have not published the names of the dealers involved even here (but that could change real quick). Still, people ask me questions because they see the bike or know I have the bike and was riding every week and so far 4 people that I know of have decided to change plans of buying a Beta in the near future because they don't want the hassles I've had.

When I worked at a car dealership years and years ago the owner had 45 years in auto dealerships and went crazy to solve every problem as quickly as possible to the customers satisfaction. He said that an unhappy customer would tell at least 10 people and each of them would tell at least 2 people and each of those would tell at least one person each. He said a happy customer might tell 4-5 people who maybe half of which would tell one person. He said it was crazy how just a few unsatisfied customers would ruin a dealership and a brand in that area.

I haven't been telling anyone except you guys (we're keeping it "in family" so far) AT THIS POINT and I already know of 4 sales this has cost Beta.

Jim the auto dealership owner was right. In the long run this will hurt Beta and the "local" dealers more than me if they don't get their act together. But right now it's hurting me more.

My state does have a Lemon law....

[mtdirtbag]

I've followed this thread from the beginning and I believe it was suggested to contact Beta USA to get things in motion. Is this something you have done and it not, why not? I've had two occasions to contact Beta USA and both times got positive results.

Sorry, I did not read through the whole thread again - I feel for you though, good luck!

[OldEz]

I appreciate the support. A LOT !

Do you know that old saying "never complain about your food until you get it" ? It goes on the theory that if you complain about the wait or something else before you get your food, it may be spat on or otherwise monkeyed with.

I would like to think the dealers I've met with wouldn't do such... but the one repeated several times about how we didn't want to get Beta USA involved and the other did hint a couple of times that it all hung on what they told Beta, which was quickly followed up by saying that of course they had to be honest with Beta.

I don't know if those were subtle threats to poison the well with Beta or not. I hope not. But I decided not to take the chance.

If I don't get some satisfaction in a very reasonable period of time from now, I plan on going and picking up the bike and THEN calling Beta USA and complaining, just telling my whole story. But after that I for sure won't be taking it back to either of those two. i really wouldn't trust them to do do good work and be honest with Beta after that.

SURELY if Beta USA will replace a guy's motor 3 times, the last time 2 months out of warranty, because something kept happening to his oil pump, then they would fix my bike ASAP.

SURELY if Beta USA will replace a whole wiring harness after the warranty is out because it had a single repairable short in it, they will do me some justice. (I hear that has happened at least 3 times from my friend who keeps up with a Beta group on Facebook)

So I still have some faith and hope with Beta USA.

To be honest, I am so sick of dealing with this, I'm fighting to not just wash the whole thing away and either go KTM because I have an extremely good dealer reasonably close or get a Rieju Ranger because they seem to be very similar to the XTrainer with actual decent suspension and dealers not really any further than I'm having to drive now. I'm getting so sick of dealing with this that I just don't know if I can ever look at the bike again without feeling sick at my stomach over what I've had to deal with... and the worse may be yet to come.

I've never bought a new bike before. My last bike had less than 35 hours on it and thats what I usually buy, a bike thats just a little past broken in. Let someone elese take the out the door hit. i decided to go new on this bike because the used ones are selling for about what they sold for new anyways and this one HAD A 6 MONTH WARRANTY.

I said, "What could go wrong? Buy it with confidence! You can't go wrong with Beta's reputation for fixing problems and with a 6 month warranty !"

I probably won't buy another new bike. I learned my lesson.

[wwguy]

If you want the bike fixed stop venting here and followed the excellent advice offered repeatedly in bold below. Do it before you do anything else, including driving 160 miles back to the dealer again. It could be that Beta USA will insist that dealer you bought the bike from does something specific to make it right for you.

Call or email Tim Pilg, President Beta USA
timp@betausa.com
(805) 226-4035

My advice is to contact him via email with a brief summary of where you bought the bike, the issues you've had, the things you've tried to fix it, and the dealers you've talked to. Rather than going into deep detail you can just include a link to this lengthy thread where he can (try to) sort through the storyline and details.

Good luck, and I hope you get this sorted out and decide to stay with Beta. I've got almost 500 hours on mine and look forward to buying another Beta when the time comes. This because the brand is unique, and most importantly because Beta USA's network of small dealers and factory support are unparalleled in the USA. Tim and his team, and how they treat customers and honor warranty work, are key to that.

I don't know if this has been suggested, but you might be better served calling Beta USA directly, I understand that the main contact is a reasonable fellow. This way you can bypass the questions of warranty expiration and cut right to the bone with the top cheese. I can't see any drawback to having a conversation with the Beta corporate folks because you deserve to be heard, as you have some well documented issues and concerns.

I got nothing else to say except that I'm pulling for you. It will be nice if the dealer turns out to be as helpful as you want him to be. Might be worth it to contact Beta USA just in case.

I've followed this thread from the beginning and I believe it was suggested to contact Beta USA to get things in motion. Is this something you have done and it not, why not? I've had two occasions to contact Beta USA and both times got positive results.

[OldEz]

Sorry guys for the lack of updates. I guess trying not to think about problems doesn't make them go away. It's been so long I'm not even sure where the last update stopped at...

Brief summary:

Bike tore up Aug 13, about 6 miles back in. Cuts off like someone pushed the kill button, usually starts back in a few seconds to a few minutes. Might do it again. in 3 seconds, might be an hour, is usually every few seconds.

Trying to maintain all the coasting speed possible, I wrecked and got a cut to the bone near my elbow, 3 broken ribs, and a cracked femur on the way out, trying to avoid pushing. So I didn't feel up to calling a dealer for about a week and a half.

Dealer I first talked to was the one my friends all used but he had no interest in me bringing the bike to him. I followed his instructions for about 2 1/2 weeks checking things over until we were down to swapping out the stator and computer. He wouldn't send those to me without me paying for parts which defeated the whole purpose of a warranty. When nudged harder to take it in to his shop, he gave me a timeline of 6 to 9 weeks in addition to the 4 weeks or so I had been down already.

So I had to call another dealer. I figured the dealer I bought it from would be most apt to fix it since the other dealer seemed to hint that's who should be bothered, not him.

This dealer rushed me in and out. Checked the time. From the time I opened the truck door until the bike was unloaded and the dealer had walked back inside leaving me alone on my car seat was 14 minutes. If I was lucky he heard half of what I had to say and cut me off repeatedly although I was the only customer there. I tried to tell him that me and the other dealer had worked it down to most likely the stator and very likely the computer also and so if he would start there it would likely save a lot of time and effort. He diidn't appear to even make a note of it. Yeah, yeah'ed me and ran me out the door. I didn't leave feeling good about it.

He said I should hear from the mechanic in a week or two because he had some in front of me but hopefully I should have my bike back in about 4 weeks. I reminded him that the bike had already been down a month but he said that was all he could do.

The mechanic called back, I believe exactly 2 weeks later, and said the stator was good but the bike wasn't charging and that he had found some corrosion on the diodes and the capacitor. I checked and the stator tested bad it before the bike left for his shop and the bike was charging 13.8 volts but hey if its a short, it can come and go. Said he was requesting that Beta let him change the regulator, the capacitor, and the diodes all at the same time instead of the usual one at a time because I had been down so long.

At this point I felt like I was finally making progress.

But after 2 more weeks, I heard nothing so I made a call. Mechanic says "Yeah I got "parts in hand" right now and I'm going to put your bike back in the que and when it's turn comes around, I ll put the capacitor and the diodes in and if that seems to fix it, I 'll give it an overnight cool down, probably do that a couple of times, and if it stays fixed, I 'll call you and let you know." I said "So we're talking about another week, probably 2 weeks before you MIGHT know something' He said "Yeah, something like that"

And then for the absolute 1st time I had been anything except super nice, I said "NO you WILL NOT! My bike has been torn up for over 8 WEEKS now. YOU have had the bike 4 weeks today. It IS on top of the que. It IS the very next bike that gets worked on and IF that seems to fix it, I WON"T be left for days wondering, YOU will call me back with a status report" He said "I'll get to it as soon as I can sir." and hung up.

I didn't expect to hear from him for a couple of weeks.

But h called back in 45 minutes or so and said that did not fix it and Beta had already told him the next step was a new wiring harness so he would put it on order and let me know something.

Almost a week later he called to confirm Beta would cover everything so far including the harness. (I had asked him to confirm) He said Beta was now believing the stator was also bad (remember I asked them to start with the stator and computer) and it was ordered, but backordered and he didn't have any idea when it would come in.

He then went on to tell me that when the part came it, it WOULD BE FIXED AND MY WARRANTY WOULD BE OVER AND NO MORE WORK OR PARTS WOULD BE COVERED ONCE IT LEFT THEIR SHOP.

I said but I still think the computer is bad and twice I've thought it was fixed. I rode it around the house for 2 hours and but then took it riding at the rough OHV and about an hour later it started the same problem again. He said "IF IT DOES IT AGAIN, ITS YOUR PROBLEM. NOTHING ELSE WILL BE FIXED ON WARRANTY" I said but it won't be anything else, it'll be the same problem I've been having. He said again" IT WILL BE FIXED WHEN IT LEAVES HERE AND ANYTHING ELSE WILL UP TO YOU ALONE" I said so if I stop 20 minutes up the road and test ride, not even 1/4 the way home, and it does it in the first 2 minutes, you are saying you don't care if you didn't really fix the problem, if I leave the premises with the bike, you wash your hands of it and my warranty is done? is that right? is that what your saying?"

He said "I was pretty clear. when it leaves here it will be fixed and no more warranty work will be done to it."

So wanting to keep the dealer on my side, I haven't really considered calling Beta USA until now. The first dealer clearly warned me not to call Beta, warned me that when Beta got involved all kinds of things that might be normally covered might not get covered when Beta got called. Maybe I'm wrong but I kinda took that for "call Beta and watch things get blamed on the customer so they won't be covered"

I took it for like complaining about meals served. If you don't like the taste of other peoples spit, don't complain until the food is in your hands.

But its looking like I '' have no choice now. I m still waiting until I'm at least told the bike is done and THEN I m calling Beta and telling them why I can't take the bike home and have to go find a good lawyer instead.

I haven't checked into it really closely but my state does have a Lemon Law and the Beta is taggable and I think that's all I need to qualify. If I understand it correctly, you turn in your information and if after the state investigates they find your side is truth, they force the dealer to give you back your money, even finance charges and then the dealer has to pay the state for their costs doing the whole procedure.

That is an option I'm feeling like I have no choice but to check into at this point.

I don't want to get ugly, but it looks like my dealer is already playing ugly with me. All I ever wanted from the start was my bike fixed. I've fixed SEVERAL OTHER THINGS on the bike without a thought of calling Beta, If this hadn't involved the computer ($350?, I dunno), possibly the wiring harness ($450 maybe for the 2 main parts he said Beta was gonna replace?) and maybe the stator ($75 aftermarket I just found out and about $250 Beta I think?), then i would have just fixed this myself also.

But letting my NEW bike stay down for over 10 weeks SO FAR now. the whole best part of the riding season, and in their shop 6 weeks and counting (I'm betting on 12-14 weeks at this point) just because they don't give a damn and enjoying being a bully when they can, they have me pissed.

And I'm cutting myself off at this point because I'm starting to get mad enough to get ugly now.

I will say before I go that several people know I bought a Beta and want to know why I m not riding it. I haven't volunteered the information to anyone but I answer when asked. About 7 people have already told me that this marked Beta off their list, two who were down to just trying to decide which dealer to buy from. This has already cost Beta a lot more than if they had just done the right thing and fixed my bike in a timely manner. Imagine how much it would cost them if someone was serious about letting everyone know how it's went down...

I'm not raising hell right now because of the previous "warning from the first dealer" or the spit in your food rule, and because the mechanic is a Yankee (no offense to you rare nice Yankees...) and sometimes has to be an ass and then will turn around and be nice. So... he may have come off stronger than he meant to or maybe I'll get "lucky" and the stator won't fix it right off so they HAVE to put a computer on it..

So I still feel its in my best interest to play nice for a bit more and give them the opportunity to play nice... before I go to publicity war and lawfare

For the official record, my Beta XTrainer has been torn up with some sort of electrical problem for 10 weeks and 4 days or 2 and 1/2 months and 4 days and the dealer has had my bike for 6 weeks and 1 day. I'll have to look up the buy day but I believe my bike was torn up 2 1/2 months out of my 6 month warranty, so I didn't get but 3 1/2 months of the 6 month warranty I paid for, and the bike has been out of warranty 4 days or so now.

But even the mechanic said that any problem I brought it in for before the warranty was covered... until he changed his tune the last time I talked to him.

[OldEz]

I like my Beta. It IS a unique bike. If I could have it running. it would be my favorite bike ever. Where did you infer that I didn't like the bike? Do you think I would put up with all this shit for a bike i DIDN"T like?

When I do eventually feel I can call Beta, hopefully very soon, I will use the contact you provided.

"Call or email Tim Pilg, President Beta USA
timp@betausa.com
(805) 226-4035"

Thank you VERY much for that contact.

Just for the record,I didn't start this for any reason except for advice and I updated with the sorry going on's because some people appeared to be interested in where and how this went and I appreciated their support and wanted to keep them updated. No other reason.I'm not meaning a publicity war with Beta... Pretty few of us read here. Anyone not interested does not have to read. Its all truth. No lies. No exaggeration, quite the opposite I think.

This last update I just posted might come off a bit whiny (DON'T READ IT!). That"s because it's been so long i thought I might to put it all down in one place to make it easier to get the whole gist. If anyone wants the WHOLE story all in one post, the last post is for them. Again, if you're not interested or just looking for a reason to criticize me and defend your brand, please find something else to read that will make you happier.

I'm gonna shut up now because I'm probably reading you more harshly than you meant. Suffice it to say my experience with dealers has not been as rosy as yours and if you feel that I'm to lengthy, hard to follow, and venting instead of simply informing those who seemed interested in the follow up, you do not have to read.

If I'm misreading you, I apologize. I am quite grouchy after going over all this again. Please overlook me if that's the case.