Oil Injection?!

[GMP]

Well its easy actually, the percent increase would be the ratio of your current mix. So, if you mix 50:1 thats 2% more fuel not being replaced with oil. Insignificant.

[Cruizin]

Keep this in mind. Two Strokes optimally need different fuel/oil ratios at different rpms, elevations, temps and load conditions (ie Hills, headwinds).

And while this new system isn't exact by any means, it will deliver different mixtures at different throttle conditions, will it not?

While the tradional method of premixing just pretty much relies on expert pre mix skills and often most bikes have way too much oil mixed in?

Or, am I just nuts?

[Jakobi]

A couple of things I posted on another discussion.

No doubt the oil injection is a stepping stone for DI.

I would like to see how it is implemented before making my mind up completely, but as we all know oil migration takes time so I'm sure its not as simple as measuring engine load vs rpm (tps vs ignition). How does it deal with something like sustained technical riding where it leans off the mixture, and then the track opens up. Think Erzberg.

How does it determine the required volume of oil correctly when oils themselves are a huge variable in terms of flash point and also viscosity?

How does the airbox deal with the added restriction/reduced volume?

I'm sure it works just fine, but likely driven by euro emissions requirments rather than performance and simplicity. I don't want to pay for things to have to remove them after - especially the included sensors and wiring which will be required in order to make this work properly.

In response to premix ratio being a compromise: While it is a compromise, it is generally a safe one with premix. IE you load up the engine with excess oil when not required and waste a good portion out the exhaust, but you also have a good surplus to work with at higher rpm. Maybe not enough for sustained WOT depending on the ratio, but imo it's better than an engine that is running on the edge of just enough which then finds itself in a position where it may require more faster than the system can deliver. I don't know if you would see this scenario in the current Xtrainer implementation - the chassis and engine setup just doesn't provide the same opportunity to really work it.

And from someone else regarding the so called simplicity of having an oil reservoir vs premixing:
Oh I cant use that oil as is does not say recommend for oil injection on the bottle
I need a degree on what oil to choose now
My bikes oil injection is running lean because I cant see smoke
You cant mix 2 different brands of oil in the reservoir, it must be bled
If you use the wrong viscosity oil it wont work correctly because it designed for a specific weight oil and must be syn what beta says

There are pros and cons with everything. I'm not entirely against the idea and can see where it is headed. Development can be a great thing, and for manufacturers to be developing 2T's is bloody fantastic! But as an individual 'upgrade' I just don't see the value in Oil Injection. I had been waiting for the 2016 specs to come out in anticipation, but my honest feeling when seeing them was disappointment. My heart sunk and I thought "why?" .. At least it has made the decision to hold off the upgrade for at least a year more all that much easier.

[Darkside]

If I lived in a state that I could plate my dirt bike, I would be all over OI. It would be great to be able to pull into a gas station, fill up and be off again.

[Johnny Depp]

Bingo. Street use becomes feasible without carrying spare oil and mixing on the fly.

A heavy oil ratio can cost power and foul plugs and create spooge which gums the power valve and ruins the muffler packing. To prevent fouling at low RPM's you must compromise the amount of oil for high rpm crank oiling using premix. Might work for single track but is not ideal for street use.

[Hammer]

Bingo. Street use becomes feasible without carrying spare oil and mixing on the fly.

A heavy oil ratio can cost power and foul plugs and create spooge which gums the power valve and ruins the muffler packing. To prevent fouling at low RPM's you must compromise the amount of oil for high rpm crank oiling using premix. Might work for single track but is not ideal for street use.

Interesting
My 300 racing is street plated has over 300 hours on it. Gets use for Enduros with a ton of road, harescrambles and trail riding and everything is still stock other than a few fenders and a piston. Still racing on the OE spark plug.
If the oil injection is been used for emission reasons that means lean to me and in over 30 years of being a tech I have never seen a bottom end bearing fail from having to much oil.

[redrider]

Time will sort out the pros and cons of OI and no doubt each con will be addressed by Beta when complaints mount. If any happen. Myself, I'm resistant to the change because I know what I have in premix. One thing that hadn't crossed my mind was what Jakobi mentioned with respect to how the OI will react to different oils and what Beta will 'require'. This should have been a BYOB option until it's proven by the race community and embraced by the "Beta following". Base price of the 2016 is up $100 here in the US, I'm sure it cost more than that to produce and install OI.

If it can be removed easily, I would. The battery in the Airbox already annoys me with the huge wasted space in the center of the Beta 2T frame, now chuck a reservoir of oil in there? Damn it! Perhaps Beta is better than some other Euro manufacturers in testing mods thoroughly before implementing them???? I don't know, but certainly hope it goes flawlessly with the market loving it based upon proven results instead of green weenie obedience.

The other refinements with the 2016 2ts are minor and better (the 2015s are great). I've been on the fence 2T/4T for 2016.....think I'll just wait until others prove OI is a great thing, or try out a 350/430 next year.

[GMP]

Funny the last fouled plug I came across was on a Husky XLite! I run a lot of oil and my silencer looked like a 4stroke can when I repacked it at almost 100hrs! I to run a plug all season. It has also been proven that power goes up with oil to a point over 20:1 as long as jetting is corrected. When Honda sold the 2stroke CRs, emissions were not on the radar and the factory recommended ratio was 32:1. I'm with Hammer that if emissions are a factor its not going to be better than a proper mix. Just like emission compliant EFI with lean maps. Never saw a map that was too rich.

Beta provides some block off plug to remove the estart if desired. Lets hope the same option applies here. Take your tank off and tell me the bike needs more wires.

[Hubert Carpet]

From the stuff I was reading about the OI sytem, it sounds like the oil flow is controlled by a combination of the ECU and a TPS. This is claimed to reduce smoke by 50% as well as sharpening the engine response so I reckon it may be smarter than it first appears. It is supposed to meter the oil based on engine demand. The odometer has been modified to include a low oil warning light and an OI diagnostics indicator so no excuse for letting the oil tank run dry. I wonder if the ECU will protect the engine by closing down if the oil level is too low? Not very convenient if you are in the middle of the back of beyond but you were warned!

I got over excited when I saw the gold forks on the 2016. Not for the bling factor but thought they might be Ohlins. Unfortunately, no joy; they have just rolled the old turds in glitter. Compared to my current 300EXC KTM, I miss the smooth Beta motor and the starter but I ride the KTM twice as fast as I trust it not to be trying to kill me all the time. I would love to drop an OI Beta motor into the KTM chassis. I bet it would fit too.

[GMP]

What if I don't want or need an odometer either? I think we beat this one up pretty good and its clear that there are two camps. We will just have to wait and see how it is implemented and if its easily removed or not.