Stock shim stacks for the Marzocchi Shiver 48 on 4Ts

[GMP]

Start by removing the bleed shims in mid and reb as was said, it will add rebound control. You may want even more but start here. I left the base valve bleed on the 300RR because it works in the rocks and is not a problem elsewhere. I still have the comp clicker more than halfway out. Actually I rarely touch the comp and work with PFP and rebound. Also start with PFP full out and turn in as needed. This will give you a feel for the effectiveness of the adjuster. Even full out, there is still approx 7mm preload on the 2kg ICS spring. For oil I've been using Redline medium and light mixed for 26cst, but I've used KYB oil in other sets and honestly it doesn't make much of a difference. There is an exchange of oil between chambers so keep it the same. Also, the inner chamber oil volume/level is just a starting point to get a good purge/bleed. With all the preload on the ICS getting the comp assy seated and threaded can be a PIA if the oil level is too high for starters, MUCH tougher than assembling a KYB. It also bleeds from the center of the rod (recess) like a Showa, not the side like a KYB, so keep it vertical. The rebound is the first thing affected by lighter oil so if you go that route you may want to add a face shim or you will be quite far in with the adjuster. Again this is on a 300RR, so lighter up front.

[dirtbird]

... With all the preload on the ICS getting the comp assy seated and threaded can be a PIA if the oil level is too high for starters, MUCH tougher than assembling a KYB.

For this reason, before disassembling the fork always set the PFP fully out.

[GOT2MOTO]

I found the ICS hard to get in also even with the PFP preload all the way out. With PFP all the way out the springs actually have slack and move, but once you put them into the cartridge the valve bottoms out an puts preload back on the spring. It took me standing on a step stool with the cartridge clamped in a vice to get it in. It is a PITA compared to KYB, Showa and WP.

[GMP]

Got2moto,

Exactly, 7mm min., plus the slug of air and extra oil on that 2k spring is a bit of force! I've been dealing with these forks for awhile now as they are on GGs as well. PFP is always set full out before R&R of the assy. Putting a slight pressure on the comp assy while raising the rod in the cartridge to 'burp" most of the trapped air helps reduce the final effort. Also what I do it use the cap tool with a "T' bar so I can hold it square. In my vise I have a seal driver for a 45mm fork clamped shut and tight, around the cartridge which is a loose fit. Around the cartridge between it and the seal driver is a piece of poly sheet with a large hole and poly pipe. Very slick when oily. This allows me to simply force the comp assy down straight, and twist the cartridge in the vise with my free hand to engage the threads. I find it much easier as I do not have to turn my wrist with all the force on it.

[celler]

I found the ICS hard to get in also even with the PFP preload all the way out. With PFP all the way out the springs actually have slack and move, but once you put them into the cartridge the valve bottoms out an puts preload back on the spring. It took me standing on a step stool with the cartridge clamped in a vice to get it in. It is a PITA compared to KYB, Showa and WP.

I did something like this with one cartridge. That was enough. I build a few parts so I could do this using my Harbor freight hydraulic press to precisely push the assembly together. This works very well. I understand most people do not have a press.

[GOT2MOTO]

I think I will need to come up with a different setup to get them in next time. A press is a good idea. I just need more room in the garage.

[GMP]

The press and adapters are a slick idea but nothing to sweat over. The key is not to overfill the cartridge, and cycle the rod up and down while holding and slightly wiggling the comp assy to purge as much air as possible before the final push. The hold the cap, turn the cartridge method works fairly well.

There were some really interesting contraptions posted over on GGRC for assembling the cartridge when these forks first came out. Much of the problem was self inflicted with excessive oil level, as at the time there was no manual.

[GOT2MOTO]

These stock Zoke forks beat the crap out of me this weekend. I did a 93 ground mile Enduro yesterday and the stock Zoke with fresh oil and different oil height did me no good. The forks in stock form cannot take multiple hits on ANY size obstacle. These things only feel good on single hits. They suck on rock gardens, stutter bumps, whoops, braking bump and multiple square edged rock faces. looking at the amount of travel I used the fork never made it past 2/3rds of the total travel, but the shock bottomed a few times for sure on high speed square edge hits.

I have a Qualifier next weekend that will run almost 100 miles. I will have to get these better or I might DNF. I am beat to $hit sore today but did finish that Enduro. Glen, I am willing to try your free bleed removal from the mid valve stack and rebound stack but will this change make the fork way stiffer feeling? The only thing I can come up with as to why this stock fork is so harsh is I might be to light for the springs and the intial stroke is to light putting me into a sharp spike mid stroke on multiple hits.

Curtis

[GMP]

Curtis,

How much do you weigh? Despite what they say, the springs in the red Zokes are .44s. What did you set your outer oil level at? Did you try to crank the rebound clickers in, to around 5 out? That will help and show you the direction to go in. The busy feeling on multiple hits like rocks is the lack of rebound. I rode mine yesterday, 93 miles. Sandy trail, whoops, roots, lots of holes, some at speed on fast hard pack sand roads. Not a couch, but it can handle it all. I'm 180 lbs and use all the travel on the biggest hits, as it should be.

[GOT2MOTO]

I weigh 168. My bike is a 4 stroke so I think the springs are .48kg stock. If they were .44kg I think I would be bottoming out everywhere. I have the rebound at 14 out right now. The comp. clickers at 20 out right now. It feels better when I put more comp in the fork but rebound seems to have no real improvement.