Stock shim stacks for the Marzocchi Shiver 48 on 4Ts

[Leon_RR250]

HI!

On Thursday I had a tough ride in our local technical woods.. I got to measure sag for the first time with this bike before we started and my feeling was spot on. After the half turn less preload on the spring there was 30mm free sag and 100-101mm dynamic with full gear on, full tank and normal lead battery instead of the 380gr lithium battery I normally use (trying to trace down a strange fault with the starter relay/fuse...). I will relax the preload about 2/5 of a turn and measure again. I had to go to 12 out on comp and 9 out on reb on the fork (+1 turn in on PFP still) and reduce two clicks from the high speed compression. The bike was super then eating all the trail junk and staying firm enough for the whoops. Today it was still quite good in the same rough MX track (with the lithium battery on).

I am giving the triple clamps to a friend for unpressing and pressing back at 180 degrees difference the axle to try the 2mm less offset option offered on my bike. I greased the bearings couple of weeks back and I noticed it. It might be the hot ticket for a lighter feeling in the finnish woods although I generally like how my bike handles currently and I don't bother much by the weight. I will start with exactly the same settings as now and then try first the sag at 105mm if it becomes too sharp at speed. This I will try after my summer holidays after 5 weeks from now.

Leon

[dirtbird]

Leon

When you decrease t/clamps offset you get a more planted feel BUT heavier steering.

[Leon_RR250]

Hi!

I had very good experiences with reducing offset on three different bikes. First after using a USD fork on a 1998 GASGAS 250 with initially a 24mm offset CRF clamp. A change to 20mm clamps transformed the bike and it was effortless to ride in the woods. Also going from 25mm standard offset on 2T YZs to 22,5mm was better for the woods. It is a free option to try on my 400 and I can always go back to standard offset in one night if I don't like it.

Leon

[Leon_RR250]

Ok, I decided not to test the offset now since I feel good with the bike and there will be many races from beginning of August to end of October...

Leon

[GMP]

If you feel like experimenting, raise the forks to the 2nd line in the clamps. Easy, fast, and reversable in minutes. I've been running this for a month now and its pretty good. Front is slightly less sensitive to weight placement but the bike is still stable, even in the rocks at a good pace.

[SpeedBlitz]

I'll nurse it along with frequent outer oil changes this summer but I'm done investing time and $$ into it. There must be something wrong dimmensionally with my right lower to cause it to wear into the upper, with all fresh bushings and new coatings. The bushing lands are tighter than other forks as Marzocchi has done for years, so perhaps with a little variation this causes the problem. I know that Terry Hay, the Racetech tuner in Australia, has been adamant about this for years now and recuts the lands like a KYB lower for more float. Being this is the second set of Zoke forks I've had with internal surface failure, and have seen many others, I'd say there is a good chance he is correct and it cant hurt. The same fork on my '12 GG was good but right before I sold it at approx 85 hrs started showing increased oil fouling. Love the performance but for such a premium fork with high parts costs, build and coating quality should be a lot better for a longer life.

Hi GMP. If you had to do it over again, would you get the standard model and upgrade to KYB SSS instead, or would you still go for a Race model with the Zokes?

[GMP]

That would depend on what I could get as far as KYBs. I'm looking for a new or almost new set, not something off some teenager's YZ that never saw a torque wrench. I will not buy blind from eBay. If I had a good set or could get them then sure I'd pass on the Race. If not, the Race is an awesome bike and the Zoke fork is great. It performs well and is very versatile. Down side is parts are stupid expensive and not always available but Steve is doing a great job with this. Still, big parts prices like the tubes make replacement impractical. I tend to think I had some bad luck but I would do two things to a new Zoke fork before riding it. First completely disassemble, clean, and inspect everything, including the PFP assemblies. Next, I'd have the bushing lands on the lower tubes cut for more float, like a KYB. It is obvious from the upper tube inner surface that my fork had the bushing "grab", this should not happen. Some people including the tuner in Australia, Terry Hay, are long time believers that the Zoke land design is inadequate. Terry does this mod on all Zokes. After this experience I tend to agree. Many sets seem fine but if tolerances are close there is no buffer.

[SpeedBlitz]

Thanks GMP. Your input is much appreciated.

[Leon_RR250]

Hi!

On Saturday I had the fourth practice after my holidays. I did not write immediately since I wanted to have a bit more time on the bike. Starter problem solved (only a bad connection behind the headlight) and the light lithium battery has been all the time in use. I reduced preload on the shock a bit less than half turn to approach 105mm of sag instead of 100-101mm. Then the bike has been a dream to ride on both on a very rough MX track and on the technical woods. It has even better balance front to back. 12 out comp, 9 out reb, 1 turn in on PFP, 375ml oil, 0.48 springs (everything the same as before). On Saturday I had the tools with me to reduce PFP preload half turn and tighten the comp clickers for less bleed but the bike is so good now that I did not want finally to mess with it.

The preload on the PFP is the actual HS damping adjustment on these forks. Standard BV valving with all the bleed and no HS shims is about the LS part only. It really is a different fork than anything else (a similar approach exists in the WP Cone Valve fork where the actual damping occurs through the cone valve and comp valving is just for fine tuning). Normal valving approaches like the ones applied to SSS KYBs may work but definitely the fork wont be as versatile anymore. Tried it already.

Thank you all again for your help here..! It has been just great lately to be able to push hard and concentrate only on riding the bike and not thinking about the forks...

Leon

[GMP]

Hi Leon,

Glad your getting somewhere. When you increase pressure on the cartridge oil with more PFP preload you reduce the ability of bubbles to form and cavitation to occur, so the oil is effectively more stable. A fork will never be totally free of this because the pressures applied are much less than in a shock with over 150PSI of nitrogen. It does have a very noticable change in feel. Thats why forks with very light ICS feel so sloppy to me even with fairly stiff valving, because the oil is full of inclusions almost like an OC fork. I'll be installng a set of new KYBs with my own valving and ICS setup soon so we will see how they compare. Good Luck.