Stock shim stacks for the Marzocchi Shiver 48 on 4Ts

[GOT2MOTO]

Dropped the rebound free bleed shim today. Dropped the preload to 0 setting which does put a little preload on spring still. I am shooting for 55-65mm race sag on front with gear on. I will shim the springs accordingly to get that sag. Using Redline 10wt and 5wt mixed 2to1 for oil. 330cc in outer and 200cc in cartridge, PFP at 1 turn. Rebound clicker at 8 out and compression clicker at 12 out. I've talked to a suspension tuner today that has me convinced the main problem is the rebound circuit as you guys have exclaimed. I guess it was common ground for WP in KTM's for years too. Long Enduro this weeknd again so I will update how it goes. I'm also being told if you have the patients to figure these forks out they are the best forks on the market today. We shall see.

[Leon_RR250]

These red Marzocchi forks and the WP Cone Valves are the standard forks used in EWC (Enduro world championship) and for sure there are good reasons behind these choices.......

Leon

[GMP]

Larger scope of performance from the PFP adjustment, thats the strong point. If you could design a similar adjustable comp assy for a KYB SSS fork, it would be every bit as good, and cheaper as well.

[celler]

These red Marzocchi forks and the WP Cone Valves are the standard forks used in EWC (Enduro world championship) and for sure there are good reasons behind these choices.......

Leon

I continue to want to hear about the setup of the bikes in Europe. It is clear to me that the European WEC riders have an edge on the US riders. The US is doing better than ever but the fact is we have been getting beat for years. When the top riders come to the US to compete in the GNCC they have won. US is not even tops in MX any more. Rich jetted bikes and so smooth is thing you hear. I am so curious on their suspension set up. I always want to learn and I think Europe can teach me a thing or two...

[GOT2MOTO]

After this weekend I am convinced these forks can be made way better with just a little tweaking. I ran less preload on the springs. Redline Oil 10wt /5 wt mixed 2 to 1, outer tube oil amount at 300cc, oil in CC at 180cc and PFP all the way out. Removed just one bleed shim from the rebound on the left leg. Totally different feel on the front. Absorbed all the small stuff and took multiple hits well. I bottomed the fork out twice in a 82 mile Enduro. Not bad. I may try one more removal of the right rebound free bleed shim for comparison. Now I notice how far off the shock is. The SACHS was kicking in the back real bad and bottoming. I got to work on that soon. Thanks for the tips guys. I think the big thing with these Zokes is the amont of oil. Too much oil causing hydraulic locking is my guess. Less oil in the CC made it way easier to get the ICS in too. There was also enough pressure to return the damper rod the full stroke with just 180cc in there. The outer I may tweek with 5 more CC's but running the minimum 300cc made a difference in the small stuff.

[GMP]

When the cartridge is bled properly, oil level is set. If you start out with an excessive amount all will be fine but the comp assy will be a bitch to install. Too little and you may not get a good bleed. Just because the rod extends fully does not mean there is a good bleed. This is not a KYB, there is a lot of preload on the free piston. You have to expell trapped air and excess oil. Rapid, bottoming movement of the cartridge in a VERTICAL position is neccessary. Again, not like a KYB that bleeds from the edge of the free piston, more like a Showa.

[thumperrider1]

GMP can I pay you to service my forks and shock? You are so much closer than sending west.

[GOT2MOTO]

Even though the manual states to put the oil height at 140mm using 200cc, I was given the tip to run it with less. I tried it with 180cc and the fork works better. Why? I am not sure. Less pressure? I am not a rocket scientist just a guy who tweks with things and trys to get them better. I wish I knew why, but at this point it is trial and error and I take note what seems to work better and what is not. I know for a fact a little less free bleed helped and so did less oil. I will try little tweks here and there and maybe I will get them even better. Right now they work way better than when I first got them. I will keep you posted on anything else I try.

[Leon_RR250]

Hi!

Good you improved the forks for you..! I understand that different drivers need different settings out of the same fork. I include below two videos from my helmet cam and in the usual local woods (not having videos yet from the harder, even more technical parts of the trail) with my 400 and the red forks when I was really satisfied with them. Same exactly oil as you used at 370mm. The other settings you know from my earlier posts (1 turn in PFP, 12 out comp, 9 out reb), still with the bleed shims on reb and mid. Overall much stiffer than your set up due mainly to the amount of oil and the less float on the mid. Fully geared up at 202 lbs, this big difference in our weight affects a lot how we feel about the fork. Also standard (5 mm?) preload on the 0.48 springs. I include the videos mainly to see generally my level (B generally at a very good level series) and understand better about the settings I like with these forks. In the first video the first part until min 6 is about wet roots and whoops, the 2nd part is about rocks. You need a good fork (and good balance with the shock) to stay upright, especially when wet. The helmet cams generally hide a lot of the reality... In the 2nd video the interesting part starts at 4:40 with lots of embedded stones, mainly round, and whoops. The fork was on the stiff side in the very slow parts but was still not deflecting and it was confidence inspiring when speed was increasing. I new exactly what it was going to do trying to go fast through the stones in the 2nd video. No jarring to the hands, no deflection, just good and going straight. In the past I almost got hurt from too soft suspension and now I prefer it to be a bit on the stiff side than on the soft side. Also the same settings were good on the MX track and in very soft and deep sand. The most versatile fork I have had without the need to change any clicker setting or PFP preload after I found the sweet spot for me, although right now I feel that the current setup with WP Cone Valve on the lighter RR350 EFI 2015 is even better. If you remember I tried to go even softer on the PFP preload but on the same trails it got bad with a lot of jarring to my hands (and some sudden blow throughs). Also I arrived to these settings after I addressed the same issues as you have with the Sachs shock. No revalve, I just put the high and low speed comp clickers at 4 out and reb at 20 out. It stopped blowing through and it was still tracking well through the junk. Probably it could get even better with a good revalve.

I wanted to clarify with the above text and the videos because after your post it could seem to many that my settings are only suitable for McGrath to jump triples... . I am just an average Joe loving enduro....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5nDAqf7KKs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_3AmJg3xbE

[thumperrider1]

Great videos!