KYB vs Sachs forks

[mtdirtbag]

I guess this is most likely directed to twowheels as to date he is the only one with experience with the KYB on this forum that I know of. Since you do suspension in your business and I'm current exploring my options, how do a set of reworked Sachs and KYBs compare. I have "some" prior knowledge with the KYB's on my Yamaha's and revalved my SSS's with Dave Johnson's help on my 09 YZ 2T, since Les is just 600 miles away he would most likely do the Sachs if I feel it would warrant that direction.

Second ?; which fork in the Yamaha line - 2T or 4T as one is supposed to be longer than the other and besides your top clamp what else is needed for that conversion?

[twowheels]

First and foremost let me address why I undertook the fitment of the KYBs to the Beta 250 demo I had. I'm a super-fan of the 48mm Marzocchi PFP forks - I consider them the current high-water mark in off-road silverware - but in 2013 the 250 was not offered as a Racing Edition and hence you had to BYOB in order to make that happen. Availability was limited and the price differential was pretty high to add the Zokes, so I set out on a different course.

With access to a set of brand new KYB SSS forks and the accompanying wheel and caliper, all I needed to add the KYBs to my Beta was a new upper triple. I looked around for an available unit, and finding none, I machined one myself, following the stock dimensions and form closely enough that at 3 feet most people think it's an OE part. Considering the time I had in the machining, I sought out professional assistance for serial production of the upper clamps I am selling now in both 20mm (2T) and 23mm (4T) offsets.

What I also wanted to do was run the stock black wheel and 260mm rotor, so a little additional work was done to space the modified Braking caliper hanger and sleeve the wheel spacers to allow use of the Beta front wheel and rotor but Yamaha axle. If I had been content to run the Yamaha wheel and rotor none of that would have been necessary.

I would not embark on this unless I wanted to run the SSS closed-chamber forks - the Sachs OC forks can be valved to at least the level of KYB OCs (but clearly not the SSS), and in fact that's what I did before the Racing Edition was introduced last year, and the idea was sparked. I mention this also because some guys were hot for Ohlins inserts for the Sachs, but time and experience showed them not to be durable and as a matter of course they were discontinued by Ohlins.

Sooooo ... if you have access to the KYBs (and maybe even the front wheel from a donor bike) and you want CC performance without raiding your kids' college fund and you didn't end up with a Racing Edition bike, then by all means go for it. Your bike will never have felt better.

[mtdirtbag]

Thank you for that; I don't know if it is worth the hassle to change or the expense, but I'm one to research most things way too much. At my age it probably is not worth spending the money, but I liked my SSS's and having revalved them myself am comfortable with working on them. One of the problems with the Sach's is the lack of documentation out there for the layman - maybe I just need to dive in and learn on my own, that and find a source for the odd sized shims.

[Arctra]

... that and find a source for the odd sized shims.

Try and find an old set of Sachs fork (internals) on eBay or from a motorcycle wrecker - that'll probably be your cheapest source of the Sachs shims.

[Hyde]

I've had my Sachs revalved by Check Point and it was a huge improvement, adding a set of TE carbon fiber handle bars made me actually thinking I could live with the OC forks but I know better, they can be made to gobble up slow going rocks or hammer big whoops but not both.

I have a set of KYB's revalved by Check Point, SKF seals, Steve's T clamp and will put them to the test this weekend, my bike handled really well the way it was.

[454X]

What about KYB cartridges in the Sachs fork.

[twowheels]

What about KYB cartridges in the Sachs fork.

I think Rob at Synergy Seals went that route with his 2010 GasGas and there was some pretty extensive machining involved. Besides, if you've got the KYB internals, most times you've also got the KYB upper and lower legs, and consequently seals/bushings etc.

[Hyde]

I set the KYB's flush with the bottom of the caps, Steve's T clamp, Yamaha front wheel with same size rotor the Beta had, rear sag 105m.

The front is much more confident hitting square edged holes and deep angled angled roots at speed, with the Sachs I was wanting a steering damper now I think I'll leave it off. I axed the Smart carb for now and went back to the Ohlins shock, the SC has just enough room on a 250 to clear the stock shock spring, with the Ohlins the bell of the carb just touches the spring.

Our first race is this weekend at our clubs land, it's rough sandy and is going to rain most of the week, and it tends to get a little brutal when wet.

The KYB mod is a good call for a racer, the Yamaha parts are cheap and they are simple to tune compared the red forks, for most peeps the Sachs can be good with a revalve but not great, they seem to take a long time to loosen up.

[Hubert Carpet]

I have sorted my Sachs forks once and for all. They are now in a box awaiting the day when they go back on the bike and I sell it.

The remedy? Some late nights researching, a trip to a bike breaker and the patience of the Gas Gas UK spares department. For anyone who's interested, here is the method. Photos to follow.

1. As has been said already on here, 48mm KYB standard forks fit straight into the Beta yokes with no changes required. These are not the SSS variety, mine are off a 2011 Husky TE250, open cartridge and only the top caps are the only real clue that they aren't the Sachs originals.

2. The KYBs on the Husky have a Brembo caliper but I much prefer the Nissin so I set about finding a conversion method. An hour with a pair of calipers measuring fork brake mounts revealed the 2012 (I think) Gas Gas EC 300 uses the same combination of fork and caliper so 30 minutes at Gas Gas UK got me the right caliper mount.

3. The Beta wheel spindle slots straight into the KYBs. The Husky one is a bit weird, the wheel only uses 1 spacer on the brake side so that went in the back of the tool box. The KYB spindle width is narrower than the Beta and requires about 1.5 mm taking off each Beta spacer.

4. Fit it all together, spin the wheel and it all stops dead. The brake rotor bolts don't clear the caliper mount so replace them with low profile allen heads. The back of the caliper bracket needs a bit of filing to clear the speedo magnet.

5. As far as I know, the forks are on standard springs and valving from the TE, they had been standing for a long time as the oil was like stale milk. Stripped, cleaned, new SKF seals and bushes from Inntech and Motul Factory Line 5W oil with 130mm air gap. Clickers set to standard for the Husky.

Stick it all together and ride. Total cost about $350.

The bottom line: I cannot believe how good this bike now is. It is out of all proportion to the cost and standard of the forks I have used. Total pot luck at a bike breakers and I can't imagine a pair of very expensive fancy Ohlins being any better. All the skittish unpredictable front end has gone and it is now solid and planted even over long stretches of loose, fist sized rocks that we ride round here. I can hit rock steps as hard as I dare without blowing a tyre and I no longer need to looking at every sqare inch of the trail ahead wondering what is going to send me off at a random angle.

I rode about 130 miles yesterday on the 1st trip out and today I don't feel any aches and pains. Normally, my arms in particular feel really battered for a few days after riding. My main riding buddy tried it and he was stunned. His bike is very well sorted and I used it as a benchmark as I was able to ride it faster and with more confidence than my own. Now the situation is reversed and his feels more unstable.

Beta factory guys, FFS ditch the Sachs forks and fit something worth having, even 3 year old KYBs from a scrap yard!!!

[Hyde]

"Beta factory guys, FFS ditch the Sachs forks and fit something worth having, even 3 year old KYBs from a scrap yard!!!"

Ditto that, The dealers and riders would benefit from just hanging one decent fork on the bikes standard, the SSS fork is easy to setup, and parts are abundant.