Universal Fork Tool ? - My first post here...

[OldEz]

Hello everyone!

I probably should have did an introduction post...

Here's the introductory short list :

Recently pulled off the early retirement thing, just barely.

Hardcore rider most of my life, now coming up on 60 y/o. Judging from my friends, I can still do a decent A class speed, but now can only hold it for tens of minutes instead of hours. Can do a middle of the pack B class speed or a bit better all day.

Friends and getting out in the woods are the most important reasons to ride and always have been with me. I raced years ago and probably will again before long but I'll never go for season championships again, just a race here and there probably. Almost everyone I ride with races and they are giving me a touch of the old fever.

Owned a m/c shop for 8 years back in the glory days of White Brothers and XR'x Only when Paul Thede was just getting hold.

11 days ago I decided a CRF450X was just too hard on an old man's body and bought myself an 2022 Xtrainer. Springs are coming.

I know, I know... Everyone says it is a trail riding only bike and isn't capable of hardcore riding at speed and the factory setup was exactly that. But after a few days of tinkering with basic set up, I can get it into speeds just below my CRF speeds and see a lot of potential gains left in the bike.

As I understand it, I will have to have a special tool to replace the fork spring.

My question is; Will the Beta special tool AB-15023-U, the Beta Xtrainer Universal Fork Tool do the job? Can I use it to change the spring in my Xtrainer fork?

If it will, that would be the way to go because it also says it is a cartridge removal tool and a fork cap removal tool also for only $20 extra.

Thanking you in advance,

OldEz

[F5 Dave]

No idea sorry, I have a mate who is local suspension guy. I have a 21 so slightly different engine. Fitting a Fatty pipe to mine was the biggest difference to a bike I've made with one change. Transformation with no loss to bottom.

Next I moved bars to forward position and fitted risers despite hard enduro experts often advising against it. This allowed me to stand more often especially up hills.

The suspension is queer. And the valving is not like an offroad bike. We made some significant changes. Bike felt twitchy but now is confidence inspiring. Next iteration is ready to pick up today (yes Sunday) finally got a stiffer rear spring. They need to be narrower than most so dont bear on inlet.

[OldEz]

Thanks for the reply!

So far I'm satisfied with the motor. It's not bad to the bone, but I can work with it and it doesn't wear me out fighting it. I mostly was looking for something with enough bottom end for my style of riding. When I do finally modify it, I suspect I'll do just what you did and slip on a FMF Fatty first.

I think a taller seat would help me stand more. I did that with a couple bikes and it really helped but for now I'm enjoying the short distance to the ground.

I think I 'll try the K9 cartridge before I dive into any valving work. Just changing sag, preload, and clicking adjusters made such a big difference for me that I want to try springs and play with the oil weights and levels before I spend the $400 for the K9 mod.

But maybe not... The K9 mod is probably gonna be my next post. I'm pretty sure I'm going there next, so... maybe I should just go ahead and start with it?

My major complaint with the valving is too much high speed dampening, especially on the front. I hope stiffer springs will eliminate most the problem in the rear and improve the front enough that maybe fork oil adjustments will make me happy, but I'm expecting to want more control and will end up buying the K9 unit.

OldEz

[F5 Dave]

Std valving is almost dangerous.

Put the Fatty on. You'll be reversing any vasectomy just so you can have another son to name it after me.

I prefer to go by David.

I don't think I'm overstating this.

[fenderworks]

Great bike!
have fun with it!

[OldEz]

Thx guys!

Consider it done David! I've already named the bike Red, but when I get a Fatty pipe, I'll name the extra power David, as in "I never would have cleared it but David kicked in and carried me across!"

I already named the bike Red because... hoping to make no one mad here... I hated the white plastic with red, blue, black, bronze, silver, orangish, and etc, etc, colors all mixed in. So I ordered a red Beta plastic body kit the night I brought it home. It was pre-2020 but I modified it and my 2022 Xtrainer still has all the original colors but the only blue is on the seat cover and the only white is on the lift handles and headlight shell. Eventually all good things must come to an end and when I sell it years from now the new owner can enjoy the original plastic in brand new condition.

I rode it one day on the original plastic and without changing anything except air pressure in the tires. And you were right. The suspension was dangerous.

Its not now. I'll try to put up a link to a highlight video of yesterdays ride sometime in the next few days.

As I think I said, I have front and rear springs coming. I hope that will clear up most of my major issues. We'll see I guess.

Old Ez

[huskynut]

I have a '22 Xtrainer as well. Agreed, suspension was evil in stock form. Sent everything to Aaron at All Moto Performance in Montana. HUGE improvement! Highly recommend this shop!

[AllMotoPerformance]

Thanks for the reply!

I think I 'll try the K9 cartridge before I dive into any valving work. Just changing sag, preload, and clicking adjusters made such a big difference for me that I want to try springs and play with the oil weights and levels before I spend the $400 for the K9 mod.

But maybe not... The K9 mod is probably gonna be my next post. I'm pretty sure I'm going there next, so... maybe I should just go ahead and start with it?

My major complaint with the valving is too much high speed dampening, especially on the front. I hope stiffer springs will eliminate most the problem in the rear and improve the front enough that maybe fork oil adjustments will make me happy, but I'm expecting to want more control and will end up buying the K9 unit.

OldEz

Hey OldEz. For what its worth, the K9 kit is essentially an OEM cartridge with slightly different shim stacks and an ineffective compression adjuster. It can be made to work far better. The same upgrades, corrections, and logic applies to both the K9 kit and OEM cartridge(since they are near identical). However, for the money you can end up with a FAR more sophisticated setup.

I recommend you check out my write up regarding the OEM fork. It may answer your questions regarding the stock forms shortcomings.

Why does the Xtrainer fork perform so poorly?
https://www.facebook.com/allmotoperform ... 232567581/

Feel free to reach out if you have any questions. Email is typically best.

Good luck!

[OldEz]

Thank you AMP for taking the time to drop me a few lines!

I figure if for no other reason, you are worth taking seriously because we do math alike! I thought I was outstanding in my field... alone. But I'm glad to see there are 2 of us there!

To paraphrase Paul of the Bible, I learned my suspension numbers at the feet of Paul Thede. I spent many, many hours on the phone with Paul in the 90's. Alas, even Paul has let me down and not published any fork springs recommends for the Xtrainer.

My math put me at spring rates that no one else agreed with that I saw. For example, the springs I already ordered are suggested by Beta as recommended for something like a 330 lb'er in front and a 220 lb'er in rear. That made me nervous but I said that this math has been right for me since the early 90's. I didn't think they changed the laws of physics while I wasn't looking, so I ordered anyways.

I run what some on the East Coast call "old pro woods set up". You make dern sure your spring rates are correct, be meticulous about having the sag/preload perfect, and take almost all the damping off. For example my CFR450X has all the high speed compression off the rear, 2 clicks from all the way out on compression and 3 on rebound. The forks are 4 clicks from all the way out and rebound is 2. I'm running the heaviest springs Honda offers for the bike which off the top of my head is .51 {or (.49 ?) and 5.7. I do a lot of standing "fender kissing", am seated in almost every turn, and often use a "seat bounce" to stand on the exit. (I also modified the linkage "pull rod" to change the rising rate which really "plushed up" the suspension, but that's a whole other story)

So I have already ordered .48... excuse me, a .96 for the front and 5.8 for the rear, which is exactly what your spring chart recommended !

That makes me want read your article but I was an early adopter on kicking Facebook to the curb about 5 or 6 years ago. I still have a page but have no idea of the password or how to get in. After 5-6 years, I'm going to let them stay kicked to the curb.

Again, thanks for dropping me a few lines (and for the encouragement by having sensible spring rates listed!) and if I'm still scratching my head and trying to figure the Xtrainer suspension out in a few weeks, I will definitely get in contact with you!

Thanks again,

Old Ez

[F5 Dave]

I've just put a .58 on back but not tried it beyond the driveway yet. Single fork springs apparently don't work out like two half rate ones for some reason. Never been on Farcebook and it will be irrelevant to newer riders that didn't join as their parents are all on it.

Probably TikTok will be the next obsolete platform us middle aged cogers will flock to to rap suspension settings to each other (the kids will have long since left).