New 2020 Spring Charts?

[StoneyWV]

So, I see the new Spring Charts are uploaded for the 2020 model year on the Beta support page. I'm not sure that I buy this completely or they have the bikes set up way different than we would for woods riding. I"m about 202 with all my riding gear on and my 2020 200RR is about exactly 1/3 of the front fork sag when I"m in the attack position on the bike. According to the spring charts; I'm under sprung by two sizes. Hmmm

[Hubert Carpet]

You will notice a massive improvement in the forks if you spring them correctly for your weight. The shock action also improves but not as much.

[StoneyWV]

Did you change springs in your 200? If so how much do you weigh and what type of sag numbers are you getting with what springs?
My concern is the User Manual for the bike states that I should be good as it says 70-90kg (155-198) for factory 4.2nm and now this spring chart says 160-179. I"m going to assume that this wide range (44 pounds) in the manual for every spring weight is due to the preload capability on the fork tops. I'll just stick to %25-30 percent sage and toss the charts I think. Race Tech even calls for a 4.0 for single track riding beginner at 190lbs.

[mtdirtbag]

I think it would be a huge mistake to go to the 4.0's you need to go the AMP's website and use his spring chart. As HC has mentioned springs will make a big difference. As far as Race Tech I can't put much credence in their spring numbers, when I had my suspension done by a local tuner he followed RT's spring chart and put a 4.8 on the rear - something that Beta even recognized as being too soft and had supplied my 14 with a 5.2, I went by Aaron's advice (AMP) and installed a 5.4. I'm 165 lbs naked, the increase improved the ride (along with fork springs) and cured most deflection which was my main gripe about the Sachs. https://www.allmotoperformance.com/spring-charts

[StoneyWV]

Okay folks; I"m going to add some real time data hear for future updates to this posting so everyone can realize what we have with Spring Recommendations for Beta

Measurements below were taken with riding gear on and my scale says 210lbs of rider weight with 3/4 tank of fuel. Standing in the attack position.

Rear Shock
28mm of bike sag
98mm of race sag
Rear has 284mm of travel
Normal recommended 30% of 284 would be 85mm
Normal recommended 33% of 284 would be 94mm

Fork
35mm of bike sag (I would suspect new springs here at .44 get me to 28-30mm bike sag and 88-90 race sag)
95mm of race sag
Fork has 294mm of travel
Normal recommended 25% of 294 would be 74mm
Normal recommended 28% of 294 would be 82mm

I"m trying to keep in mind that the Beta is not a MX bike, it has approx one inch less travel and the recommended sag numbers on MX bikes are approximately 95-110 depending on the site you research. A 320mm travel MX bike would be 96mm for 30% sag and 106mm for 33% sag. With a bike sag recommendation around 30-40mm which is about 9-12% of total travel.

Spring charts that are on the beta accessories page for 2013+ say RR 2 Stroke .42 fork covers 175-190lbs and 5.2 rear covers 185-199lbs
Spring charts posted on manuals page for suspension state both of these springs at 160-179lbs.
Manual for 2020 200RR states the spring range at 70-90kg which is 155-198lbs.

I've read on suspension link on this sight from Stillwater that they have had the best luck in the 110mm range for rear sag on the Beta which is about 38%. If I went to 38% sag on the rear it would be current sprung right for my weight.

Interesting project here and I have an inquiry in with Stillwater to get their recommendations and new springs purchased if required. I will follow up with data as it unfolds.

[StoneyWV]

beta_rates_2020.pdf

(161.02 KiB) Downloaded 513 times

And yet another set of numbers for the mix from a Tuners Page

[StoneyWV]

Update on the Spring Rates. So, had two more days out riding the 200 and it for sure needs new springs for my weight. Talked with Kevin over at Stillwell Suspension and he is ordering me some new springs. We are going with a 5.6 for the rear of the bike and 4.5(one 4.6 and one 4.4) for the front fork. Soon as he is able to get them in stock and send them I'll update with the riding response. It's currently good in super slow technical because of the under sprung characteristics, but for sure gets little overwhelmed when speed picks up.
Hoping the new springs bring me up higher in the stroke and let me open up the clickers a few to quicken the response. More to follow when I remove the factory springs and hopefully they are identified with numbers that I can relay to confirm what was installed on the 2020.

[StoneyWV]

As suspected no numbers on the factory fork springs, and the rear shock was in fact a 5.2 as identified in the charts. Springs have been replaced and a ride this Friday will be scheduled. A few notes from installation is the fork oil levels were at about 130-140 mm from the top edge with everything compressed. I added oil to both sides to get them up to 110 mm as per the newly posted 2019 OC manual on the beta site. Not sure if there was a change in the 2020 forks that called for less oil, but I guess we will see on Friday. Also, even with the 5.6 rear springs I had to turn the collar about 3.5 times to get the static sag to 38mm which is just over the 35mm recommended in the users manual. The fork wear rings are about 50% cut through after 5 hours so I will be ordering something with little more protection and maybe doing a little heat gun work with the fork guards. They have been rubbing pretty good since day one, and can't get them to stop with any adjusting of the bolts.

[StoneyWV]

Just completed an entire weekend on the bike and the suspension response is way improved with the stiffer springs. Ended up at 5 clicks less compression than factory settings and 3 clicks more rebound. The fork still feels like it ramps up too much. Going to decrease the oil levels back down 10cc on each leg and see if that helps out with ramp up and let's me get more of the travel under normal rock garden and whoop sections.

I will say that I'm looking forward to a revalve at the first rebuild required to see if we can get it softened up slightly on the high speed valving.

I would say the oil levels probably should have remained where they were factory,

[StoneyWV]

Going to dig this back out and get some updates. I installed the Lucky Cartridges up front while keeping the same spring rate of 4.5. I had the lanier adjuster and bladder installed on the rear shock and kept the 5.6 rear spring. I've ridden the bike for enough hours that it was time to get things tuned a little finer. I started playing with the fork and just can't get the high speed impacts to completely go away so I drained for oil and lowered the volume down to 140mm and I'll add more in as needed to keep from bottoming out. On Single Track I'm not close to using all the travel on higher speed hits, so I figured it's either ramping up air pressure to quick or the valving needs opened up on the high speed side. Will determine that on the next ride. I kept getting a harsh feeling while seated on climbs and catching roots, my analysis was that I'm actually going through the travel completely and getting to the bump stop. I wanted to get the bike up to 95mm of sag as I previously calculated that it should be so ordered a 5.8 spring and going to swap it out as soon as shop finished with rebuild as the adjuster started seeping oil on the Lanier from adjusting it too much I assume. Might be a slight design flaw that dirt gets trapped in there.
With the Lucky and Lanier the bike feels better than I could achieve from stock setup, but it's still not eating things like by Downhill Mountain bike does so I think there is more room for improvement so 5.8 on rear less oil in fork and test ride next weekend and see how she feels.